lost again

Ana. 19. Bored and boring.

Expect a ton of tv shows, video games, movies, music, and books.

Current fandom haunts: Game of Thrones, Uncharted, Skyrim, and Mass Effect...and kpop.

sing little bird;: Okay I’m just gonna say this once and try and be cool about it:I get... 

littlebirdclegane:

Okay I’m just gonna say this once and try and be cool about it:

I get a lot of you are pissed, passing off sansan shippers as irrational babies and awful people I mean what else is new, people making gross generalizations about our ship and it’s shippers but that scene is their last interaction.

Yes, exactly. Some people liked the sansan scene, some people didn’t and it’s all okay and acceptable. People are allowed to express their emotions on their blogs and to their friends, whether those emotions are positive or negative. This was one of the biggest and most significant episodes of the season so it’s understandable that many people will have intense reactions to it.

Frankly, anyone who hates sansan shippers will continue to hate us no matter how nice and quiet or mean and loud we are. It’s not going to change. As long as people tag their stuff appropriately and don’t talk down to others for their different opinions, there’s nothing wrong with venting and being upset. 

slamsa-stark:

Not to sound like a jerk guys, but oh my god.

I am a huge sansan shipper and what I am seeing in these tags as a reaction to tonight’s episode is the PRECISE reason the rest of the fandom hates us.

Everyone needs to calm the fuck down.

The episode only ended an hour ago so plenty of emotions are going to be running high, whether they’re positive or negative. People are allowed to be disappointed. Nevertheless, it’ll most likely be calmer by tomorrow.

Also, the people that despise Sansa/Sandor shippers will always loathe us, no matter if we express love or dissatisfaction with the tv show. To those people, it doesn’t matter whether we’re happy or angry with what the tv show has given us; to them, we will always be stupid, disgusting, annoying, etc. 

I agree that it would be nice if everyone was civilized and rational, but in all honesty, everyone has the right to vent and rant as they please. As long as that ranting and venting does not involve harassing or harming anyone, I don’t see what’s the big deal.

lady-clegane:

againanna:

lady-clegane:

butanotheropened:

lady-clegane:

if someone could explain to me why Jaime and Theon are sympathetic problematic and morally grey characters

and Sandor Clegane is not

yeah.

Because he’s ugly?  

that’s the assumption I usually run with. 

To be honest, I think the reason why some people are unsympathetic to Sandor has less to do with looks and more to do with how they interpret Sandor’s actions and how overprotective they are of Sansa.

I think it’s fair to say that a lot of the Sandor haters are also diehard Sansa fans, and they see Sandor as someone who had intentions of raping or sexually assaulting Sansa at the night of Blackwater. Sandor’s interaction with Sansa in the Blackwater scene is the most commonly brought up reason on why they are so repulsed by his character.

As well as his infamous line to Arya…I think you know the one.

Also, Jaime and Theon are more prominent characters than Sandor, making them easier to understand and have access to their thoughts. We don’t get that with Sandor.

No, I mean, I know that’s a reason. (I was being a little facetious with the ugly thing. Although it’s proven to be a factor with some people.) I just… well, he’s non POV. So like it used to be with Jaime and Theon, he seems very very charcoal in the terms of grey-scale. And some people enjoy painting him black for the Blackwater scene and for his last lines to Arya. 

But it’s such a flat interpretation, in my opinion. We’re given all this information about Sandor—he was burned almost to death by his monstrous, raping, killing, murdering older brother and his father covered it up, his sister was murdered and it was covered up by his father, and then his father was murdered. He’s never had a home, someone who loved him. Most people who know him met him after he was burned. He exists in a society based upon looks. He was molded in Gregor’s image, and has what Gregor’s reputation should be. He cries four times, one of which arguably after he kills Micah—Ned’s narrative mentions his eyes “glittering strangely,” possibly with tears. Sandor is sympathetic to children who are bullied—he sticks up for Myrcella and Tommen. He sticks up for Sansa, repeatedly. He is appalled when she is sexually abused and humiliated in front of court. He’s aware of the blatant hypocrisies that exist within a patriarchy. I mean, a hound will die for you, but never lie to you. 

And the night of Blackwater he was reduced to being a boy whose face is being held to the flames by his older brother with no one to help him. He’s reduced to the little boy as he was getting his naivete, his beliefs about knights and maidens burned away from him. He’s scared shitless. And he goes to Sansa, drunk as fuck, to take her away. It’s a ridiculously problematic scene, and not saying I condone or excuse his behavior—but I understand it. He wants to take her away from all of this. He’s leaving, and he can take her with him. But he fails one more time—he’s drunk and covered in blood and vomit and it scares her so she won’t consent.

Consent—a key word. Sandor is a man who believes in consent. He won’t do anything to or for Sansa without her consent. And in this moment of drunken terror, he holds a knife to her throat because he wants to force her to come with him, and then he breaks. He can’t do it. So he decides maybe he’ll rape her before he goes, because he’s dead anyway when he deserts. But his intention to rape her dies almost as soon as it begins. And then she sings, and disgusted with himself, he leaves his cloak, his one symbol of honor and the epitome of “true knighthood” behind. 

Again, not excusing or condoning his behavior. But I can understand it, and it makes me sympathetic. Because Sandor is a victim too. He’s a perpetrator of violence, but he’s also a victim of child abuse and suffers from what we would call in a modern perspective PTSD and depression and alcoholism. 

And then the line to Arya… yeah we all know my feelings on this, don’t we? Sigh. I mean, I know I’m preaching to the choir here bb but I never pass up the chance to expound about Sandor Clegane. 

Ugh. All of his rape language makes him a problematic character. But he clearly abhors it, and abhors himself and Gregor and all the men who view women as objects. The key to Sandor is his self loathing. That and his strange The Hound/True Knight dichotomy. And that speech to Arya is both sides of him coming out as he’s dying. 

And all the other feels, which I’m sure I’ve force-fed to everyone at this point so I won’t reiterate…

But anyway. Yes. People who hate Sandor. Do they really expect GRRM to write that flat of a character after putting so much detail about him for a non-POV character? I understand being protective of Sansa, but the majority of time, that’s what Sandor was since she was a child on the cusp of maidenhood and he was a thirty year old man. 

And then Blackwater. 

SIGH. 

I completely agree with you on all you have to say about Sandor. I apologize if I gave off the vibe that I was siding with the people that claim he’s unforgivable or a complete monster with no chance of healing. It’s just that I’ve done plenty of lurking on blogs that aren’t so Sandor-friendly, and the Blackwater scene comes up a lot.

This was wonderfully written, by the way. It makes me happy to see people look beneath the surface when it comes to Sandor, especially since, as you’ve stated, GRRM would not place so much detail about a character that is meant to be seen as purely sinister. 

Edit: Also, it really really irks me when self proclaimed feminists go on and on about how Sandor is seeping with male privilege, and yet completely ignore his debilitating mental health, abusive past, and the privileges he lacks in a society that sees him as a monster. Of course, being a man is going to give him privilege over women in society, but to completely write him off as having it grand just because he happens to be a man…it’s far too simplistic. I consider myself a feminist as well and it makes me wonder if I’m a “bad” feminist for having compassion for male characters that went through a ton of horrific events that shaped them the way they are.

there is love in your body but you can’t get it out, it gets stuck in your head, won’t come out of your mouth. ♫

thatkinslayer:

is it just me or does he seem like (in this scene) he’s the little boy throwing worms at the girl he likes so that she won’t think he likes her?

but sandor. obviously you do like sansa. why would you protect her so well from your own bosses otherwise? he specifically said in this scene that he would be the only thing standing between her and joffrey. that’s not technically his job though, is it? his job is to protect the king, not protect the king’s betrothed from the king himself. 

but obviously he likes her and wants to protect her. pretty much everything mean he ever says to her is something to disguise that he does in fact like her, or it’s an empty threat. 

You’ve reached the voice mail of Black Widow, ex-superspy and crime fighter extraordinaire. I’m out fighting crime right now, please leave a message.

lady-clegane:

butanotheropened:

lady-clegane:

if someone could explain to me why Jaime and Theon are sympathetic problematic and morally grey characters

and Sandor Clegane is not

yeah.

Because he’s ugly?  

that’s the assumption I usually run with. 

To be honest, I think the reason why some people are unsympathetic to Sandor has less to do with looks and more to do with how they interpret Sandor’s actions and how overprotective they are of Sansa.

I think it’s fair to say that a lot of the Sandor haters are also diehard Sansa fans, and they see Sandor as someone who had intentions of raping or sexually assaulting Sansa at the night of Blackwater. Sandor’s interaction with Sansa in the Blackwater scene is the most commonly brought up reason on why they are so repulsed by his character.

As well as his infamous line to Arya…I think you know the one.

Also, Jaime and Theon are more prominent characters than Sandor, making them easier to understand and have access to their thoughts. We don’t get that with Sandor.

“When my dragons are grown, we will take back what was stolen from me and destroy those who wronged me. We will lay waste to armies and burn cities to the ground.”

Dear ASoIaF fandom: 

lady-clegane:

Let’s get some things straight:

Stanning for Sandor does not mean that one excuses all of his problematic actions and/or glorifies them.

and defending him doesn’t mean that we’re glorifying the poor white male. When  has it stopped being acceptable to defend a male character? When has it stopped being acceptable to sympathize with one? I am not some brainwashed victim of the patriarchy. Sandor Clegane is a man who was physically and emotionally abused all his childhood, SET ON FIRE, stigmatized for his looks, told he was only good for violence, and essentially reduced to a killing machine.

and that’s the rub

that’s what all the characters want you to believe. That he is the Hound, that he is an angry, violent murderer, not some PTSD-suffering, self-loathing, depressed man who was emotionally stunted and traumatized. 

He’s an extremely gray character, and non-POV. What he says and does can be interpreted many different ways. 

I’m not excusing his actions. I understand why he did them. I understand why he says what he says. I feel sympathy, and I recognize a huge potential for growth

WHICH BRINGS ME TO PART TWO

stanning for Sandor and shipping sansan does not mean that I am some gross, soulless, misogynistic freak. I am not a pedophile. I am not advocating pedophilia, or abusive relationships. Nor am I glorifying them when I say “Sansa makes him human.”

Sandor Clegane is not Sansa Stark’s job. Sansa Stark’s job is to stay alive, gtfo of the Vale, and reclaim the North and do whatever the else Sansa Stark wants to do

shipping sansan also doesn’t mean that I want them to have sex

SHIPPING SANSAN MEANS:

1. That I recognize a deep, meaningful connection between the two characters
2. and I want it to continue developing in a deep, meaningful manner
3. and in a way that allows the both of them to grow as human beings
4. and makes them happy
5. and I want to be romantic, consensual, healthy, and when Sansa is an adult and in a position where she can make these decisions without coercion or fear.

AND HEY GUESS WHAT

THIS IS HOW MOST OF SANSAN SHIPPERS FEEL

so no,

we’re not misogynistic or anti-feminist. In fact, you’ll find some of the largest Sansa stans amongst sansan shippers. I mean, look at me. I go fucking batshit insane when someone so much as implies that Sansa is anything less than the flawless queen that she is. 

so no,

shipping sansan, stanning Sandor, and stanning Sansa are not all mutually exclusive.

But apparently, this needs to be said. So this is my defense of my ship. I shouldn’t have to write it. But apparently, I do. And this is how most people feel about sansan. We’re in it because we love and respect and want the best for the characters, and we think the best person for the character is the other. We’re okay if you disagree. WE’RE NOT FUCKING STUPID, AND WE DON’T EXPECT EVERYONE TO SHIP IT AND OR LIKE IT

but we’re looking for a little respect.

Comments like “delete your blog and go die,” “pray for them, I don’t think they have souls,” “clearly your education failed you,” and “you’re fucked in the head,” and “I guess none of them can understand what sexual abuse is” are not respectful. They are hurtful, and are bullying. They are shameful. They are also ad hominem attacks. 

Feel free to debate with us. We love debate. I’ve had some awesome, respectful, intellectual debates with non shippers and come away from the debates friends with them. We do it all the fucking time within the ship. But policing our ship, calling us sick, and generalizing us as pedos who live in our mother’s basements and get off on pairing abused, hurting little girls with huge, angry, violent men and tagging your hate

will make us mad. 

So please, even if you don’t ship it, and don’t like it, just ship and let ship. If you don’t ship it, but espouse this ideal, please reblog. Because I’m sick of being attacked and demeaned for what I ship. It’s not cool. It sucks. It makes me feel awful. It’s made me cry. So please. 

Just stop. Stop with the hateful, ship-shaming, bullying comments. Against everyone. No matter who you stan, who you ship. Because there’s a real person behind that graphic/meta/fic/post, and they have real life experiences and traumas and feelings

because I’m calling a fucking end to open season on all shippers, all stans. 

we’re here because we feel passionately about these characters

and besides, reblogging a social justice post or a suicide awareness post and then telling someone they should go die in a ditch

just makes you look like a fucking hypocrite.

gameofgifs:

“Here, girl.” Sandor Clegane knelt before her, between her and Joffrey. With a delicacy surprising in such a big man, he dabbed at the blood welling from her broken lip. The moment was gone. Sansa lowered her eyes. “Thank you,” she said when he was done.

”Someone give the girl something to cover herself with” the Imp said. Sandor Clegane unfastened his cloak and tossed it at her. Sansa clutched it against her chest, fists bunched hard in the white wool. The coarse weave was scratchy against her chin, but no velvet had ever felt so fine.

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